1
00:00:08,629 --> 00:00:06,789
there's a whole fleet of them look on

2
00:00:10,870 --> 00:00:08,639
the assay

3
00:00:14,230 --> 00:00:10,880
oh my gosh they're all going against the

4
00:00:18,870 --> 00:00:16,310
it was basically a cube with inside of

5
00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:18,880
sphere where the points of the cube

6
00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:38,630
so this isn't anything that just is

7
00:00:50,549 --> 00:00:40,559
limited to the united states

8
00:00:54,150 --> 00:00:53,350
hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

9
00:00:56,630 --> 00:00:54,160
podcast

10
00:00:58,709 --> 00:00:56,640
my name is andy off the back want to say

11
00:01:01,189 --> 00:00:58,719
thank you for all the great feedback

12
00:01:02,869 --> 00:01:01,199
from episode three with jason gleaves

13
00:01:04,710 --> 00:01:02,879
it's amazing to see so many people

14
00:01:05,189 --> 00:01:04,720
enjoyed the conversation as much as i

15
00:01:06,789 --> 00:01:05,199
did

16
00:01:08,710 --> 00:01:06,799
jason's a great character and make sure

17
00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:08,720
you've gone on to amazon to check out

18
00:01:11,990 --> 00:01:10,400
his two books as well

19
00:01:14,469 --> 00:01:12,000
folks i just want to also say that

20
00:01:14,789 --> 00:01:14,479
tonight's show is a great guest lined up

21
00:01:16,950 --> 00:01:14,799
it's

22
00:01:18,710 --> 00:01:16,960
lieutenant tim mcmillan as you'll

23
00:01:21,190 --> 00:01:18,720
probably know him on twitter

24
00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:21,200
uh tim was really gracious with his time

25
00:01:24,550 --> 00:01:23,280
and we had a fantastic conversation

26
00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:24,560
earlier on

27
00:01:29,749 --> 00:01:26,880
so much so as i announced on twitter

28
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:29,759
i've decided to split it into two parts

29
00:01:33,429 --> 00:01:31,520
the first part being released tonight

30
00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:33,439
monday the 25th of may

31
00:01:38,069 --> 00:01:35,520
and i'll release the second episode a

32
00:01:39,510 --> 00:01:38,079
bit later in the week for you to digest

33
00:01:41,429 --> 00:01:39,520
tonight's episode you're going to hear

34
00:01:43,030 --> 00:01:41,439
about tim's journey into ufology and

35
00:01:45,429 --> 00:01:43,040
investigative writing

36
00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:45,439
his own ufo uap sighting which is

37
00:01:48,069 --> 00:01:46,479
fascinating

38
00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:48,079
his thoughts on the new york times

39
00:01:52,389 --> 00:01:50,560
article of december 2017

40
00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:52,399
the most intriguing aspects of the

41
00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:54,560
government's admissions debating with

42
00:01:57,830 --> 00:01:55,600
the debunkers

43
00:01:59,109 --> 00:01:57,840
mcquest we're looking at you and an

44
00:02:01,510 --> 00:01:59,119
exclusive from tim

45
00:02:02,950 --> 00:02:01,520
at the end of part one and before we

46
00:02:04,389 --> 00:02:02,960
head into the show folks i just want to

47
00:02:06,550 --> 00:02:04,399
say a massive thank you to everyone

48
00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:06,560
who's been in touch on twitter this week

49
00:02:10,389 --> 00:02:08,080
it's been great conversing with everyone

50
00:02:14,390 --> 00:02:10,399
hello to all the new followers to

51
00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:14,400
that ufo podcast that's at ufo uap am

52
00:02:18,229 --> 00:02:17,120
on twitter and that ufo podcast on

53
00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:18,239
facebook

54
00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:20,080
we do have a patreon set up now for that

55
00:02:24,630 --> 00:02:22,560
ufo podcast times are hard just now

56
00:02:26,309 --> 00:02:24,640
but if you can contribute anything there

57
00:02:28,229 --> 00:02:26,319
are three tiers there's a one dollar

58
00:02:29,990 --> 00:02:28,239
tier which gives a shout out at the end

59
00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:30,000
of each episode of the show

60
00:02:34,229 --> 00:02:32,160
that also buys me a coffee uh five

61
00:02:36,150 --> 00:02:34,239
dollar tier which gives you those same

62
00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:36,160
benefits but we'll give you access to

63
00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:37,840
upcoming bonus episodes that will be

64
00:02:42,869 --> 00:02:38,400
released

65
00:02:44,869 --> 00:02:42,879
last week that went down a storm

66
00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:44,879
and the ten dollar tier again gives you

67
00:02:49,430 --> 00:02:46,480
all those previous benefits

68
00:02:49,990 --> 00:02:49,440
but i will pick any content you choose

69
00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:50,000
and create

70
00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,560
a show based on it that could be a movie

71
00:02:56,710 --> 00:02:54,560
a documentary or just my thoughts on a

72
00:02:57,910 --> 00:02:56,720
famous ufo incident as well

73
00:02:59,509 --> 00:02:57,920
and i might be able to get one of the

74
00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:59,519
guests on as well to have a chat about

75
00:03:02,309 --> 00:03:00,480
that

76
00:03:04,149 --> 00:03:02,319
so again anything you can contribute

77
00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:04,159
that would be greatly appreciated folks

78
00:03:06,550 --> 00:03:04,800
okay

79
00:03:08,390 --> 00:03:06,560
but as always and i'll keep saying it

80
00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:08,400
your lessons streams and downloads are

81
00:03:11,350 --> 00:03:09,440
the main thing

82
00:03:12,470 --> 00:03:11,360
please please please remember to

83
00:03:16,830 --> 00:03:12,480
subscribe

84
00:03:22,149 --> 00:03:16,840
like and retweet thanks folks enjoy the

85
00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:23,910
so on the line with me now is guest

86
00:03:27,589 --> 00:03:25,760
number four on the show

87
00:03:29,750 --> 00:03:27,599
quite a list of accomplishments so we've

88
00:03:31,990 --> 00:03:29,760
got a retired law enforcement officer

89
00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:32,000
investigative writer respected public

90
00:03:35,270 --> 00:03:32,879
speaker

91
00:03:36,390 --> 00:03:35,280
ted talks featured presenter researcher

92
00:03:38,309 --> 00:03:36,400
and consultant

93
00:03:39,589 --> 00:03:38,319
the list does go on but i'm sure most

94
00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:39,599
importantly from what i've heard in

95
00:03:42,309 --> 00:03:40,640
previous interviews

96
00:03:45,110 --> 00:03:42,319
and justin speaking to him he's a family

97
00:03:47,350 --> 00:03:45,120
man as well um so on the show i've got

98
00:03:48,789 --> 00:03:47,360
lieutenant tim mcmillan retired tim how

99
00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:48,799
are you doing

100
00:03:53,350 --> 00:03:51,840
good great man how are you i'm very well

101
00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:53,360
tim thank you very much for giving us

102
00:03:56,149 --> 00:03:54,480
some of your time today

103
00:03:57,350 --> 00:03:56,159
i appreciate that you've got kids i've

104
00:03:58,470 --> 00:03:57,360
got kids so we had to do a bit of

105
00:04:01,910 --> 00:03:58,480
rescheduling

106
00:04:04,229 --> 00:04:01,920
but life life gets in the way doesn't it

107
00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:04,239
yeah it does but you know what it's it's

108
00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:06,560
it's good and it's good to uh

109
00:04:09,429 --> 00:04:08,400
good good to put family first i'm glad

110
00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:09,439
you mentioned that because it's very

111
00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:10,560
important for me people

112
00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:12,720
i don't talk about a lot publicly but it

113
00:04:15,750 --> 00:04:14,080
is and and i

114
00:04:17,270 --> 00:04:15,760
have much respect for people who equally

115
00:04:19,509 --> 00:04:17,280
do the same because

116
00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:19,519
it's remarkable how fast those kids grow

117
00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:21,280
up man

118
00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:24,000
very yeah i've had to lock mine out from

119
00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:25,199
the outside so

120
00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:26,720
they're currently stuck in the house

121
00:04:31,590 --> 00:04:28,320
with supervision supervision

122
00:04:33,430 --> 00:04:31,600
they're not left on their own um

123
00:04:34,629 --> 00:04:33,440
so uh straight off the bat i've got a

124
00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:34,639
question from a listener but it is

125
00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:35,680
relevant

126
00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:37,199
i've noticed uh obviously with your

127
00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:38,960
accent you are from the us

128
00:04:42,390 --> 00:04:40,960
but you're based in germany something

129
00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:42,400
i'm not too sure how it came about what

130
00:04:46,469 --> 00:04:44,000
was your decision to kind of

131
00:04:47,350 --> 00:04:46,479
leave the us for germany what can happen

132
00:04:49,670 --> 00:04:47,360
there and

133
00:04:51,030 --> 00:04:49,680
what do you like about living in germany

134
00:04:52,629 --> 00:04:51,040
oh sure that's a great question yeah

135
00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:52,639
nobody ever asked me that i think i've

136
00:04:55,030 --> 00:04:54,240
mentioned it a couple times because it's

137
00:04:58,390 --> 00:04:55,040
no secret

138
00:04:58,870 --> 00:04:58,400
although i maybe don't go into it a lot

139
00:05:02,310 --> 00:04:58,880
because

140
00:05:05,110 --> 00:05:02,320
um you know i do try to keep uh my

141
00:05:05,670 --> 00:05:05,120
personal life somewhat private but the

142
00:05:07,430 --> 00:05:05,680
whole reason

143
00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:07,440
i'm in germany is my wife actually works

144
00:05:09,350 --> 00:05:08,800
for the department of defense as a

145
00:05:15,110 --> 00:05:09,360
teacher

146
00:05:17,350 --> 00:05:15,120
after i had taken early retirement from

147
00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:17,360
policing i was working at a

148
00:05:20,390 --> 00:05:19,120
private firm as an intelligence and

149
00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:20,400
investigative analyst

150
00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:23,199
and we had an opportunity she had an

151
00:05:26,310 --> 00:05:25,280
opportunity to relocate and restation

152
00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:26,320
here in germany

153
00:05:30,870 --> 00:05:28,880
and so we jumped on it because it gave

154
00:05:33,110 --> 00:05:30,880
me a chance to work from home and and do

155
00:05:35,749 --> 00:05:33,120
a lot of the stuff that i do now

156
00:05:36,469 --> 00:05:35,759
and uh give the kids and everybody else

157
00:05:45,909 --> 00:05:36,479
a

158
00:05:48,629 --> 00:05:45,919
been in the whole

159
00:05:50,230 --> 00:05:48,639
uh you know pandemic lockdown and but

160
00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:50,240
yeah

161
00:05:53,270 --> 00:05:52,240
in terms of just being here it's great

162
00:05:56,309 --> 00:05:53,280
uh it's

163
00:05:58,390 --> 00:05:56,319
uh we're in southwest germany

164
00:05:59,350 --> 00:05:58,400
near trier so we're about 30 minutes

165
00:06:03,029 --> 00:05:59,360
from the border of

166
00:06:04,790 --> 00:06:03,039
luxembourg france belgium it's great to

167
00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:04,800
have an opportunity to

168
00:06:07,270 --> 00:06:06,000
get to meet all these different people

169
00:06:08,309 --> 00:06:07,280
see different cultures it's great for

170
00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:08,319
the kids i think it's

171
00:06:12,950 --> 00:06:10,800
that was one of the big things is um i

172
00:06:14,070 --> 00:06:12,960
did i am from the states i grew up spent

173
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:14,080
my whole life in

174
00:06:18,230 --> 00:06:16,000
the southern united states right there

175
00:06:20,469 --> 00:06:18,240
in the antebellum and so

176
00:06:21,830 --> 00:06:20,479
it was nice to to get out and see

177
00:06:24,390 --> 00:06:21,840
different things and

178
00:06:25,350 --> 00:06:24,400
you know where we are here you know i

179
00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:25,360
can

180
00:06:28,790 --> 00:06:27,280
30 yards from me some of my neighbors

181
00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:28,800
have some the old

182
00:06:31,909 --> 00:06:31,600
2000 year old roman long wall um all

183
00:06:34,469 --> 00:06:31,919
right

184
00:06:36,629 --> 00:06:34,479
built into their wall like it's the

185
00:06:37,590 --> 00:06:36,639
house we actually live in here is uh 400

186
00:06:40,870 --> 00:06:37,600
years old

187
00:06:42,710 --> 00:06:40,880
and so it's really cool and that's the

188
00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:42,720
i talk a lot about ufo stuff but

189
00:06:45,590 --> 00:06:44,400
actually people will be surprised i'm a

190
00:06:48,230 --> 00:06:45,600
big military

191
00:06:49,909 --> 00:06:48,240
history buff and so it's cool to go to

192
00:06:51,189 --> 00:06:49,919
some of these sites and different things

193
00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:51,199
around here

194
00:06:54,629 --> 00:06:53,440
but yeah that's my my wife just happens

195
00:06:56,950 --> 00:06:54,639
to be a school teacher

196
00:06:59,270 --> 00:06:56,960
and fortunately with the department of

197
00:06:59,589 --> 00:06:59,280
defense so that gave us this opportunity

198
00:07:05,430 --> 00:06:59,599
to

199
00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:05,440
um so you've you've had a bit of a

200
00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:06,000
journey

201
00:07:09,589 --> 00:07:07,919
through your your last kind of 20 years

202
00:07:11,350 --> 00:07:09,599
just looking at your bio online and

203
00:07:12,790 --> 00:07:11,360
what i wanted to do for any listeners

204
00:07:14,150 --> 00:07:12,800
that weren't too familiar with that or

205
00:07:16,469 --> 00:07:14,160
if it's been a while since they've heard

206
00:07:18,710 --> 00:07:16,479
and more so for me tell me a little bit

207
00:07:20,230 --> 00:07:18,720
about that journey and what led you to

208
00:07:22,150 --> 00:07:20,240
the point where you're now writing some

209
00:07:24,230 --> 00:07:22,160
of the most relevant articles

210
00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:24,240
on the ufo subject what's going to

211
00:07:29,189 --> 00:07:26,160
brought you to this point

212
00:07:31,350 --> 00:07:29,199
sure yeah no my my life is a big

213
00:07:33,270 --> 00:07:31,360
journey of happenstances and unattended

214
00:07:35,029 --> 00:07:33,280
consequences you know i never wanted to

215
00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:35,039
be a cop but spent almost 20 years as

216
00:07:39,589 --> 00:07:35,840
one

217
00:07:40,309 --> 00:07:39,599
uh way back in my youth i was actually

218
00:07:41,830 --> 00:07:40,319
in college

219
00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:41,840
for to be a research i couldn't decide

220
00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:42,800
if i want to be an astronomer or

221
00:07:47,990 --> 00:07:44,560
research cognitive psychologist

222
00:07:48,629 --> 00:07:48,000
and so some kind of unfortunate events

223
00:07:50,869 --> 00:07:48,639
that involve

224
00:07:52,469 --> 00:07:50,879
tragedy some friends actually were

225
00:07:54,950 --> 00:07:52,479
killed in a home invasion

226
00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:54,960
led me into deciding to be a cop and i

227
00:07:57,670 --> 00:07:56,400
was very fortunate i worked for an

228
00:08:00,070 --> 00:07:57,680
agency

229
00:08:00,950 --> 00:08:00,080
just outside savannah georgia who was a

230
00:08:03,749 --> 00:08:00,960
good

231
00:08:05,430 --> 00:08:03,759
uh medium-sized agency had a great chief

232
00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:05,440
of police that kind of

233
00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:08,720
you could do as much or as little well

234
00:08:11,830 --> 00:08:10,080
no let me tip it a little

235
00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:11,840
you could do as much as you wanted to

236
00:08:16,309 --> 00:08:13,680
and so i just took the ball and ran with

237
00:08:18,629 --> 00:08:16,319
that and i was very fortunate

238
00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:18,639
uh to have the opportunity to be you

239
00:08:21,589 --> 00:08:20,560
know i was a violent crimes investigator

240
00:08:25,029 --> 00:08:21,599
for years i got

241
00:08:25,990 --> 00:08:25,039
certified and as a csi crime scene

242
00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:26,000
investigator

243
00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:28,080
though i don't like that side i told me

244
00:08:33,670 --> 00:08:31,120
i i had to do it but i'm not a lab guy

245
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:33,680
um i was a canine handler for years and

246
00:08:36,149 --> 00:08:34,399
uh and

247
00:08:37,430 --> 00:08:36,159
violent crimes interrogator which was

248
00:08:40,310 --> 00:08:37,440
interesting

249
00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:40,320
um where i interrogated most part won

250
00:08:44,310 --> 00:08:41,200
crimes

251
00:08:46,230 --> 00:08:44,320
uh i did still finish my my

252
00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:46,240
college education everything in

253
00:08:49,670 --> 00:08:48,000
cognitive psychology and actually a

254
00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:49,680
bachelor's in mathematics

255
00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:52,080
and so a lot of the stuff that i did in

256
00:08:56,470 --> 00:08:54,480
law enforcement pertained to

257
00:08:57,750 --> 00:08:56,480
uh behavioral analysis behavioral

258
00:09:00,470 --> 00:08:57,760
investigation

259
00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:00,480
uh i was an instructor so i taught a lot

260
00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:02,560
of the stuff that you

261
00:09:05,590 --> 00:09:05,040
kind of into intuition for policing like

262
00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:05,600
how do you

263
00:09:10,389 --> 00:09:09,360
science and um

264
00:09:12,070 --> 00:09:10,399
you know that you hear people talk about

265
00:09:13,110 --> 00:09:12,080
that my spidey sense going off you kind

266
00:09:16,310 --> 00:09:13,120
of taught people

267
00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:16,320
what that means in a more scientific

268
00:09:21,430 --> 00:09:18,399
sense and how do you heighten that

269
00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:21,440
uh along with profiling

270
00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:23,200
which because the term profiling and

271
00:09:28,389 --> 00:09:25,200
policing is not a good term

272
00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:28,399
for obvious reasons criminal

273
00:09:31,750 --> 00:09:29,920
investigative analysis same thing

274
00:09:32,630 --> 00:09:31,760
behavioral analysis and profiling so

275
00:09:35,829 --> 00:09:32,640
that was kind of my

276
00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:35,839
specialty and i did a lot with

277
00:09:39,350 --> 00:09:37,120
department of justice the federal

278
00:09:42,710 --> 00:09:39,360
government a lot of different entities

279
00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:42,720
there helping out with different all

280
00:09:45,910 --> 00:09:44,880
criminal justice domestic terrorism type

281
00:09:49,509 --> 00:09:45,920
investigations

282
00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:49,519
and uh did that for a number of years

283
00:09:54,949 --> 00:09:52,880
almost 17 and then finally like i said

284
00:09:58,070 --> 00:09:54,959
earlier about being a family man

285
00:09:59,350 --> 00:09:58,080
my last few years in policing i was the

286
00:10:02,230 --> 00:09:59,360
night time

287
00:10:04,310 --> 00:10:02,240
duty officer which meant i was the

288
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:04,320
essentially the de facto chief of police

289
00:10:07,269 --> 00:10:05,279
when the chief

290
00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:07,279
and all the the patrol commander were

291
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:08,880
off so at night time

292
00:10:13,829 --> 00:10:11,920
i was the guy in charge and that put me

293
00:10:16,389 --> 00:10:13,839
on straight nights and i didn't i have

294
00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:16,399
small kids and so i never saw them and

295
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:17,920
so that's what that's what led to my

296
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:19,920
early retirement i think i've

297
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:22,880
seen people uh online or in message

298
00:10:28,949 --> 00:10:25,040
groups be like and why would a guy

299
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:28,959
leave after only 17 years and uh

300
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:31,360
how can he be retired and it really

301
00:10:35,829 --> 00:10:32,399
comes down to

302
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:35,839
you know uh i actually my my son when he

303
00:10:40,069 --> 00:10:37,360
was in kindergarten i saw his

304
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:40,079
journal after he had gotten done with

305
00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:41,600
school and i saw a picture that i hadn't

306
00:10:45,430 --> 00:10:42,800
seen before that said

307
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:45,440
my dad's a cop he's a good cop i love

308
00:10:49,110 --> 00:10:47,200
him i never get to see him

309
00:10:51,350 --> 00:10:49,120
and that was literally it two months

310
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:51,360
later i retired and by early retirement

311
00:10:54,470 --> 00:10:51,760
i

312
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:54,480
cashed out my last three years through a

313
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:55,440
police

314
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:57,279
benevolence association thing so i took

315
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,760
early retirement and

316
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,160
the only reason i use that moniker even

317
00:11:07,030 --> 00:11:03,920
now today is because i am

318
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:07,040
a um

319
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:09,920
qualified law enforcement expert with an

320
00:11:12,069 --> 00:11:11,360
organization in the united states that

321
00:11:14,150 --> 00:11:12,079
does speaking

322
00:11:15,670 --> 00:11:14,160
consulting stuff i don't know i don't

323
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:15,680
believe i'm an expert or anybody's an

324
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:17,040
expert in anything because that means

325
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,959
you know it all and i definitely don't

326
00:11:22,550 --> 00:11:20,399
but that's the only reason i even hang

327
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,560
on to that kind of moniker um

328
00:11:26,790 --> 00:11:24,880
and so when it comes to now fast

329
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:26,800
forwarding where did i get into

330
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:29,279
uh journalism and more importantly kind

331
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:32,720
of ufo journalism the past year

332
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:36,320
the topic of uso's has interested me

333
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:40,000
for probably last seven or eight years

334
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:42,079
and i have never shot away from the fact

335
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:43,519
that the initial interest was

336
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:46,079
after i had my own siding of something

337
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:47,519
now well that was that was going to be

338
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:48,160
my

339
00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,320
about that

340
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:54,240
sure yeah no it was and i always

341
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:55,360
qualified and say i

342
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:58,079
i saw something very interesting but i i

343
00:12:01,030 --> 00:11:59,279
wouldn't put it in the same realm as

344
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,040
some other people's experiences who i

345
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:02,720
think are much more dramatic

346
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:05,440
mine was because again where i was in

347
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:06,560
savannah is a very

348
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,760
military-rich environment in fact it's

349
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:11,680
if you look at the 2015 east coast

350
00:12:15,190 --> 00:12:13,279
events uh some of those

351
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,200
occurred you know 30 miles off the coast

352
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:16,720
or where we were i mean right there

353
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,320
but um yeah one night late at night i uh

354
00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:22,880
me and another friend who was she she's

355
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:23,680
actually still

356
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:26,399
a police sergeant in the county police

357
00:12:29,190 --> 00:12:27,200
there

358
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:29,200
i was leaving her house and we were just

359
00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:30,720
outside chatting

360
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:34,639
and all of a sudden these three

361
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:38,240
lights uh about as big as like a p

362
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:41,440
at arm's length so just cut on as if

363
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:42,959
somebody flipped on a light switch and

364
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:44,800
they were all in a straight line

365
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:46,079
and it was definitely one of these

366
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:47,200
things it's not one of these things

367
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:48,079
where you

368
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:50,000
you see something in the distance you're

369
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:51,519
like what's that this was like

370
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:54,079
what the hell is that like it was

371
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,519
obvious

372
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,920
and they just stayed there motionless

373
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:58,959
and then

374
00:13:02,629 --> 00:13:01,360
a few minutes later they are excuse me a

375
00:13:04,310 --> 00:13:02,639
few seconds maybe

376
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:04,320
20 30 seconds later they just cut off

377
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:05,519
like somebody flipped a light switch

378
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:06,079
again

379
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:09,440
and then uh probably another 15-20

380
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:10,800
seconds after that

381
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:13,200
they cut back on along with two others

382
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:14,399
so now there's five

383
00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:18,079
uh it was kind of antiquey yellow white

384
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:20,720
hue all in a straight line and at that

385
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,079
point they were low enough

386
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:24,720
on the horizon where the ambient light

387
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:26,959
of the city that was right there

388
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:29,839
um was blocked out and suddenly you

389
00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:30,800
could see what

390
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,320
appeared to be like a rectangular

391
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,399
like they were attached to something but

392
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:37,920
if they were attached to something it

393
00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:38,320
was

394
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:41,920
massive um i always caution people on

395
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:43,600
that last part because i'm cautious

396
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,680
myself that i understand how the brain

397
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,839
works in perception and so where were

398
00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:49,120
they attached to a structure i don't

399
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:49,600
know

400
00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:52,000
your brain will fill in gaps sometimes

401
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:53,600
and i think everybody should be cautious

402
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:54,880
of that whenever they see something

403
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:55,760
weird

404
00:13:59,590 --> 00:13:58,000
but it appeared to be and then uh

405
00:14:00,710 --> 00:13:59,600
probably 30 seconds after that they just

406
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,720
cut off

407
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:03,040
as if somebody flipped a light switch

408
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:04,160
and so

409
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:06,560
i was fascinated the whole ride home

410
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,440
i've told people

411
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:09,519
it's it's a wonder i didn't wreck

412
00:14:11,590 --> 00:14:11,120
because oh jeep wrangler and i'm like

413
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,600
looking

414
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:13,839
out the whole time like wanting to see

415
00:14:17,829 --> 00:14:15,519
something again

416
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:17,839
and that's when i got into you know i

417
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:19,600
started googling like what the heck is

418
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,199
this what is this and uh

419
00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:23,760
stumbled upon mufon you know had never

420
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:25,440
really known about this kind of stuff

421
00:14:29,829 --> 00:14:28,160
and um actually reported that sighting

422
00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:29,839
to mufon and later found out that

423
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:30,880
someone about

424
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,000
20 30 miles west of us had reported the

425
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:36,399
exact same thing

426
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,160
probably 10 minutes before us and so

427
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:42,720
i still don't know who that is but i do

428
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:43,440
know that

429
00:14:47,189 --> 00:14:45,680
you know mass hallucination's silly

430
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:47,199
that's no that's not a real thing you

431
00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,399
maybe have heard people use that

432
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:49,760
explanation there's no

433
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:52,639
empirical evidence for that uh so i know

434
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,440
it was real

435
00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,440
i know that somebody else saw it too

436
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,199
that i still don't know who they are

437
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,959
what it was i don't know but it got me

438
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,399
interested in my initial

439
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,360
interest for the first up until about

440
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:04,720
last year

441
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:07,839
uh i people probably don't realize i did

442
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:09,920
a lot of research this topic but outside

443
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:11,680
the quote ufo community

444
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:14,079
and this was actually speaking with

445
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:15,920
witnesses

446
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,760
people who had seen things and um

447
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,360
i was able to kind of qualify a

448
00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:23,519
behavioral profile same thing we do

449
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:26,240
in the criminal justice job where you

450
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:27,199
could determine

451
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:29,199
you know the behavioral profile of

452
00:15:33,990 --> 00:15:32,000
somebody who had actually seen something

453
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,000
that was truly challenging reality or

454
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,920
somebody seen something weird

455
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,279
and so i approached it those first

456
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:39,040
couple years from my background in

457
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:41,199
cognitive psychology and it is still a

458
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:42,959
question that i still

459
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:46,000
pose to this day which fascinates me

460
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:49,279
which is are what people seeing

461
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:52,320
really what they see and that doesn't

462
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:52,800
mean

463
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,279
it's not something sentient and

464
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:58,480
intelligence

465
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:01,040
um but i still am very curious to the

466
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:02,079
fact that i think

467
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:04,880
you will see uh if you really look at

468
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:06,000
the history of ufo

469
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:08,720
sightings what is seen or what is

470
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,560
perceived to be seen

471
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,079
follows along with the kind of

472
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,240
technological zygous to the time

473
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,360
the late yeah 19 19th centuries airships

474
00:16:20,949 --> 00:16:20,160
now now now you hear people associating

475
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,959
with drones

476
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:23,040
autonomous drones so it always follows

477
00:16:26,389 --> 00:16:24,560
along

478
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,399
what people see is like just one step

479
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:28,160
ahead of what we

480
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,800
actually know is possible and so that's

481
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,079
fascinating to me

482
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,399
because i think the potential still

483
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:36,079
exists out there

484
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:39,120
that it can be something it can be real

485
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,160
but are we seeing exactly what it is

486
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:44,800
um and so that was my initial interest a

487
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:45,199
long

488
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:49,440
eventually last year once i had taken

489
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:50,240
early retirement

490
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:52,240
and i had the opportunity and especially

491
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:53,680
coming to germany here

492
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:57,120
where um the we're at a small air base

493
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,320
so it's not like you know i could go

494
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,240
work a cash register or go

495
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,600
you know do something on base and um

496
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:05,120
my wife said you should just write and

497
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:06,799
do what you want to you really want to

498
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:07,120
do

499
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:10,400
and so i i felt like

500
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:13,280
i had a kind of a certain investigator's

501
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,240
skill set

502
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:16,559
and things that i had done that i i

503
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:18,000
didn't feel like there was a lot of

504
00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:21,360
real investigative journalism like

505
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:24,160
true hardcore investigative work and

506
00:17:28,789 --> 00:17:25,600
then sharing that with the public

507
00:17:31,669 --> 00:17:28,799
and so i i said you know screw it

508
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:31,679
i'll try to blaze the trail myself so

509
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:32,000
it's

510
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:35,840
as much for everybody else as me

511
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:38,640
i think i'm as equally interested in it

512
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:39,760
as anybody else

513
00:17:43,110 --> 00:17:41,520
and so that's what's kind of led me to

514
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:43,120
where i am now and

515
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,720
continues to be he's uh i try to put it

516
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:48,640
under the lens as if all of this stuff

517
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:51,280
i'm preparing it for the court of law

518
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,400
can i grab a standard of evidence

519
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,960
that i would take into court and present

520
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,160
in front of a jury

521
00:18:02,310 --> 00:18:01,120
and the jury in this case is the people

522
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:02,320
it's it's the public

523
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:03,840
you know is there beyond a reasonable

524
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,600
doubt something's going on

525
00:18:09,029 --> 00:18:08,160
it's interesting it's fascinating no and

526
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:09,039
i get that from

527
00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:10,480
your articles that i've read as well

528
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,960
recently that that they're easy to read

529
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:14,400
there's a lot of language in there and

530
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,520
acronyms and

531
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:17,760
especially being from the uk when it's

532
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:19,360
department of defense is easy enough but

533
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:20,080
then

534
00:18:23,190 --> 00:18:21,440
air force office of special

535
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:23,200
investigations start coming into it and

536
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:24,799
you've got all these different acronyms

537
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:26,400
and different parts and it's like

538
00:18:29,510 --> 00:18:28,160
wait a minute i thought the dod in this

539
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,520
department was potentially the same

540
00:18:31,750 --> 00:18:31,280
thing but then the navy gets involved

541
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:31,760
and

542
00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:33,840
but you lay out in a really easy way to

543
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,960
read and i think your

544
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:36,720
your expertise from what you've done in

545
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:38,720
the past is absolutely transferable and

546
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:39,760
that's what's really helping you we

547
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:41,280
cannot rise to prominence in this in

548
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:42,240
this area

549
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,520
so i just want to ask like going back to

550
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:47,360
and just to touch on the site in itself

551
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:48,559
i thought was great what you've said

552
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,280
there because

553
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:52,000
there's an air of credibility when a

554
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:52,960
police officer

555
00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:55,039
or someone in the military or someone

556
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:56,640
with some kind of

557
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,880
credible background sees something that

558
00:19:01,430 --> 00:19:00,400
you don't normally associate with having

559
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,440
those kind of positive

560
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,840
views of it and it's not a joke anymore

561
00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:06,000
so that that experience was great

562
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,320
um so firstly at the first two guests i

563
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,559
had gary burris and sean cahill

564
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,720
were both involved in the uss princeton

565
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,320
and had their own views their own

566
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,400
experiences with those incidents back in

567
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,760
2004

568
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,520
my third guest i brought on jason

569
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:20,960
gleaves i don't know if you know

570
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:23,919
he is based in the uk former royal air

571
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:24,320
force

572
00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:27,039
he has an expertise in image analysis

573
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,320
and he shared his views

574
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:30,640
on those topics and more as well and

575
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:32,000
very deliberately can i

576
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:33,280
mapped out if i could and i've been

577
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,880
really lucky to get all four of you on

578
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:37,039
yourself as my fourth guest because

579
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,440
you've all got experiences or i know you

580
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,120
don't like the word expert but some form

581
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,520
of expertise that allows you to weigh in

582
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:45,919
on the subject uh from a different point

583
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,640
of view

584
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,480
and i think for yourself that you've had

585
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:50,160
your own experience great but the way

586
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:51,600
you write about it again

587
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,600
is very subjective and it's in the

588
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:56,000
middle of you you're not skeptical as

589
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,600
such but also you're not

590
00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:00,240
sitting on the fence of these are aliens

591
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,080
these are this these are that it's the

592
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:03,600
here are the facts and you allow people

593
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,400
who cannot

594
00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:06,240
read into them in their own in their own

595
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:07,600
way which is great so

596
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:10,080
can you just tell me did you have any

597
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,159
thoughts and feelings back in december

598
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:14,320
2017 when the new york times article

599
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:15,280
first broke

600
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,000
and we first saw that front page of the

601
00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:20,960
pentagon's had its own ufo program

602
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:24,000
yeah sure yeah you know i remember being

603
00:20:29,669 --> 00:20:25,600
probably like a lot of people

604
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:29,679
fascinated and equally um

605
00:20:33,430 --> 00:20:32,000
uh i think you know very suspicious at

606
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:33,440
first you know

607
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:34,720
that's one of the things that probably

608
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,640
would surprise people

609
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,840
though if they went back and even looked

610
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:40,240
at some of my early articles um

611
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,679
i've i've mentioned i've had people

612
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,840
bring up the um

613
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,919
electronic countermeasures theory about

614
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:47,600
some of these events like could it have

615
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:48,559
been

616
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:52,159
uh eccm type stuff and

617
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,880
i have people share the uh project

618
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:56,720
palladium article with tj barnes and

619
00:20:59,029 --> 00:20:57,600
gene petit

620
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,039
that was in the war center like have you

621
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:01,200
read this and i'm like well actually i

622
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,000
wrote it

623
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:04,559
you know because i i i was just as

624
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:05,520
skeptical

625
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:09,039
uh including the fact um people often

626
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:09,600
forget

627
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:12,720
in the big hit piece against elizondo

628
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:13,520
last year

629
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:16,240
uh in the intercept i'm quoted in it and

630
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,760
not saying anything negative just giving

631
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:19,360
his actual background that i've looked

632
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:20,400
into

633
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:23,600
um and so i was i was skeptical of it at

634
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,520
first i think you should be i think

635
00:21:28,950 --> 00:21:27,039
like you said not jumping to any

636
00:21:30,149 --> 00:21:28,960
conclusions and maybe it frustrates

637
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:30,159
people when i'm like

638
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:32,480
i can give you x number of reasons why i

639
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,440
don't think it's

640
00:21:37,029 --> 00:21:35,919
classified secret u.s tech i can give

641
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:37,039
you x number of reasons why i don't

642
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,799
think it's foreign tech

643
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:40,960
but me to say that it's alien or

644
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:42,320
something else

645
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:45,840
i think those first two like you have to

646
00:21:49,510 --> 00:21:46,400
have an

647
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:49,520
overwhelming abundance of evidence that

648
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:50,080
says it's

649
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:53,760
not man-made tech or something before

650
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:55,120
you jump to aliens and that's just

651
00:21:58,390 --> 00:21:56,559
because

652
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,400
for me like you said i'm very objective

653
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:00,240
in it and we don't have the objective

654
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:01,840
evidence though i know a lot of people

655
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:04,559
have experiences and i think they have

656
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,280
uh a much different perspective there

657
00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:09,440
and i respect that i i wish that

658
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,200
uh i wish i had some of those

659
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:13,440
experiences maybe i wouldn't be as

660
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,480
skeptical but i i i did i when i heard

661
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,640
the new york times article i was

662
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:20,559
i was skeptical at first i think the

663
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:22,720
videos themselves i see a lot of arguing

664
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:23,760
about it on twitter

665
00:22:28,149 --> 00:22:26,640
and i see this in that uh and recently

666
00:22:30,149 --> 00:22:28,159
if you you saw i was uh

667
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:30,159
had a great chat with mick west on his

668
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:33,200
show i was really enjoyed that

669
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:34,880
last i watched that last night actually

670
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:36,640
yeah it was cool

671
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:39,760
yeah so interesting yep and again i

672
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:41,360
don't agree with a lot of what mick west

673
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:42,480
says but i do

674
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:44,559
appreciate where he's trying to come

675
00:22:47,830 --> 00:22:46,159
from with a lot of it and potentially

676
00:22:49,990 --> 00:22:47,840
the way it comes across

677
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:50,000
can be detrimental to what he's trying

678
00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,360
to achieve

679
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:53,679
and i think well and i think you know i

680
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,880
don't want to speak for him but i would

681
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:56,720
say just in our conversation both on and

682
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,480
off the air i think that especially with

683
00:23:02,310 --> 00:23:00,559
the 2004 events

684
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:02,320
they're pretty frustrating for him

685
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,000
because i don't think he can

686
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,240
debunk them and that was my whole point

687
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:08,000
in that interview is that i think the

688
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,000
videos themselves and i'd say this to

689
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,000
anybody uh even the

690
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:14,720
most hardcore uh believers the videos

691
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,240
themselves shouldn't be considered

692
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:18,640
compelling evidence of anything alone

693
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,799
and the evidence for that we know

694
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:23,360
could go back to 2007 when they leaked

695
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:24,880
on above top secret

696
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,520
if anybody's ever read those messages

697
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,640
you know people were like

698
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,559
get out of here with this hoax this is

699
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:31,679
bs that's

700
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:34,400
junk and i'm like that's you know you're

701
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,799
right

702
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:36,960
alone by themselves but when you add

703
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:39,039
this totality of evidence that goes with

704
00:23:41,510 --> 00:23:40,559
it and all the great eyewitnesses you

705
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:41,520
mentioned uh

706
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:43,760
gary is a great guy i love gary um i

707
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:46,240
haven't had a chance to speak to sean

708
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:48,400
um but when you add this to talented

709
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:50,080
evidence it's very interesting

710
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,919
and so i think initially i would say

711
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:56,320
when i saw it i was skeptical of the

712
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:57,360
that but yet

713
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,640
fascinated it to a degree it didn't

714
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:02,240
surprise me

715
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:04,159
and you mentioned like how laying out

716
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,440
all these different acronyms and

717
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:07,120
everything i'm very fortunate in the

718
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:09,120
fact that i did grow up in a big

719
00:24:13,830 --> 00:24:10,880
military family

720
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:13,840
um my uncle worked for the joint chiefs

721
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:15,039
he was with the dia

722
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:18,080
he was at the pentagon my next-door

723
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,279
neighbor growing up

724
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:21,200
uh and my best friend's father was

725
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,880
general joe votel who just recently

726
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,360
command

727
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,840
uh retired from centcom but he was the

728
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:27,760
special operations commander during the

729
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:28,799
bin laden raid

730
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,480
i grew up in a world where

731
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,960
my uncle was a special special forces

732
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,919
officer

733
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,760
and so you know family vacations and

734
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:39,440
stuff in the mountains in north carolina

735
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:41,120
i was around

736
00:24:45,269 --> 00:24:43,200
cia contractors back when people thought

737
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:45,279
contractors met they built houses

738
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:49,200
and so and coming from a bureaucratic

739
00:24:52,310 --> 00:24:51,039
background especially in my last years

740
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:52,320
when i was in

741
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:54,400
the executive services of the police

742
00:24:57,669 --> 00:24:56,559
department all these little nuances of

743
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:57,679
bureaucracy

744
00:25:01,510 --> 00:25:00,159
you learn and listening to all this

745
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:01,520
stuff you realize

746
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:04,880
it's very very complex and it's you know

747
00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:06,320
but it seems natural to me so i

748
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,919
understand when they're complaining

749
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:09,840
about stuff for different things that

750
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:10,799
i'm like oh yeah well

751
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,960
you know this this and this you know the

752
00:25:16,470 --> 00:25:14,559
pentagon it takes

753
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,480
10 people in a research study to change

754
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:17,679
your role of toilet paper

755
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,400
um i i hear that more and more from

756
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:22,080
people like yourself from and

757
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:23,760
luella's on those talked about it and

758
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:25,440
it's one of those things well

759
00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:27,919
i think the view and and your following

760
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:29,039
has shifted that there's

761
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,960
a group of people sitting in a room who

762
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,159
know what this is

763
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,000
who basically say we have the aliens

764
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:35,760
locked away we have the craft in this

765
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,320
hangar

766
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,919
it's not like that things are so

767
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:39,679
compartmentalized within the government

768
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:40,559
like you say

769
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:42,320
it takes committees upon committees upon

770
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:43,919
committees to make one decision about a

771
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,799
decision

772
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,080
and and this is where people are

773
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,919
starting to realize that

774
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:49,919
it's a good thing but also a bit of a

775
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:51,279
scary thing that the people

776
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:54,480
running things maybe not maybe not

777
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:55,840
competent aren't the words but they're

778
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,320
not all quite as as in sync as you would

779
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:59,679
hope or want them to be

780
00:26:02,789 --> 00:26:01,120
in these different departments and they

781
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,799
all have their own

782
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:05,200
own agendas and objectives and and

783
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:07,840
that's what they very much focus on

784
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,880
sure and it's you're absolutely right

785
00:26:15,190 --> 00:26:12,000
and that's one of the things that's

786
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,200
fascinating is i've never seen any

787
00:26:19,029 --> 00:26:17,200
you know maybe it does but i've never

788
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:19,039
seen any evidence for some kind of

789
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:22,000
inner cabal like an mj12 group that

790
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,960
controls it

791
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:24,880
what i've seen is very consistent with

792
00:26:30,950 --> 00:26:26,400
what i'd expect in government

793
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:30,960
which is a system of where you kind of

794
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,559
you know i've said this multiple times

795
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:34,320
in in the framework of the department of

796
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:35,279
defense

797
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,919
the terms ufo and even uap you've heard

798
00:26:42,549 --> 00:26:39,440
them use it multiple times

799
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,559
that legally doesn't exist and so when

800
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:44,240
you have something that doesn't exist in

801
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:45,279
such a rigid

802
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,799
world as as a military or government in

803
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,559
general where there is a policy for that

804
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,480
policy for that policy

805
00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:55,039
and if you stub your toe you know oh i

806
00:26:59,590 --> 00:26:57,440
feel a form what blah blah blah out

807
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:59,600
and it gets forwarded here when you

808
00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:01,760
don't have that for anything

809
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,240
it's in a weird way it doesn't exist

810
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:08,159
like it just doesn't you know you're

811
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,520
like how could they not

812
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:12,240
a ufo a flying saucer just flies next to

813
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:12,960
the ship and then

814
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:16,159
zips off at crazy speed

815
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:18,320
you know maybe they do a report of some

816
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:20,080
sort but where it goes from there it's

817
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:21,279
kind of all these things where people's

818
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,919
like

819
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,200
i don't know where the hell this goes

820
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,440
and you're right it is interesting

821
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,840
to think because there's such a

822
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:29,520
preponderance of evidence in terms of

823
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:32,000
eyewitness testimony and even going back

824
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:33,279
to

825
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:34,960
one of the more formalized

826
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:37,360
investigations talk about blue book and

827
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,320
i brought this up

828
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:40,399
uh just recently about the content

829
00:27:44,070 --> 00:27:41,520
committee report

830
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:44,080
um had a great conversation with a

831
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:45,840
friend the other night about that he was

832
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:47,360
very very skeptical of it i'm like man

833
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:49,039
go back and read the condom committee

834
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:50,000
report

835
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,440
because that's what killed blue book

836
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:54,240
that's kind of where 1969 when the idea

837
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:55,039
that it was all

838
00:27:59,190 --> 00:27:57,279
junk came out i said go just go read it

839
00:28:01,590 --> 00:27:59,200
now you don't have to read all 1400

840
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:01,600
pages but just read the conclusion again

841
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:04,320
for yourself and then they text me last

842
00:28:08,789 --> 00:28:06,080
night were like holy

843
00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:08,799
this is not what i thought it said you

844
00:28:12,389 --> 00:28:09,360
know it

845
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,399
never said this is all junk this is

846
00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:15,360
all can be explained by prosaic means it

847
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,000
just

848
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,159
it really actually said man i don't we

849
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,000
don't know what the hell's going on

850
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:22,080
and this is such a difficult thing for

851
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,760
us to wrap our brains around

852
00:28:28,230 --> 00:28:25,360
do we want to spend a bunch of money

853
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:28,240
doing this or in those instances

854
00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:29,760
they're in the middle of the vietnam war

855
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:31,360
we're in the cold war

856
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:32,640
do you want to spend money and that's

857
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:34,320
one thing i think a lot of people don't

858
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:35,600
realize as well

859
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,919
because to us it's like dude the idea

860
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:39,200
that it could be

861
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,240
aliens or something is so freaking cool

862
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:43,679
how do you not invest your time and

863
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:44,960
money into it

864
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:47,440
but when you have people who are like

865
00:28:50,950 --> 00:28:48,320
forget that

866
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:50,960
you're not taking my f-35 budget you

867
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,200
know you're not going to take from this

868
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:55,440
um those all those factors come into

869
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:56,880
play because to them

870
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,480
their mindset as long as you don't have

871
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:02,000
ufos

872
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:05,200
attacking us it's their defense thinking

873
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,320
they're thinking well what the hell is

874
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:08,159
north korea doing what is iran doing

875
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:08,640
what is

876
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:10,640
russia doing and how can we defend

877
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:12,880
against this that to them is real world

878
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,720
and so it's really really interesting

879
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,320
when you get into the

880
00:29:20,389 --> 00:29:18,640
kind of inner sanctums and the hierarchy

881
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:20,399
of the department of defense you realize

882
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:21,279
that

883
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:26,960
and more like yeah man there's some

884
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:27,919
weird stuff

885
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,840
but i've got all of this outlined that's

886
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:37,600
in front of me that's more important

887
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:40,799
in my mind at least and so

888
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,559
um it's such a that's it's one thing and

889
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:47,120
and i am a legal policy nerd i like the

890
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:47,600
law

891
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:51,600
everything because i think it's uh

892
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:53,600
law is very interesting topic in and of

893
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:54,720
itself

894
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:56,159
and so looking at it from that

895
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,000
perspective

896
00:30:01,830 --> 00:30:00,480
maybe gives me a little different view

897
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:01,840
of things doesn't mean it's right

898
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:04,880
you know i can always be wrong um

899
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:08,159
you know hell me alexander the

900
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:09,200
restaurant we could all be getting

901
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:10,880
played by the secret cabal for all i

902
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:11,600
know

903
00:30:17,110 --> 00:30:15,279
um

904
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:17,120
that's you know what you see you mean

905
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:18,399
you made a really interesting point

906
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,440
before about how

907
00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:21,440
in the past particular times of what the

908
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,120
vietnam war where

909
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,520
money and budgets were focused on an

910
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,120
area that they wanted to focus

911
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:29,679
on and like you say ufology as much of a

912
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:30,480
niche or

913
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,480
as that niche is growing that's what

914
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:34,240
we're interested in and that's for where

915
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:36,000
we want the trillion dollar defense

916
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:37,279
budget spent but it's not going to

917
00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:39,440
happen but you've then said that they

918
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:41,200
look at threats from other countries do

919
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:43,039
you think that's part of the reason why

920
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,480
aloe elizondo

921
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,720
is going down the route not to say these

922
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:48,480
things are a threat but he's trying to

923
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:50,000
play the angle that

924
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,760
these things are coming into us airspace

925
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:55,760
unmatched we have got some of the best

926
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:57,679
top gun pilots on the planet that are

927
00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:59,760
just being played with by these things

928
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:01,279
and he's trying to make the point that

929
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:03,039
this is how we can take this forward

930
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,000
this is how we can

931
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,240
get those people involved because if we

932
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:09,039
play the the angle of a potential threat

933
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,480
which a lot of people don't like and get

934
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:12,480
very defensive about your steven griers

935
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:14,480
that want to really go into detail about

936
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:15,039
how

937
00:31:18,789 --> 00:31:17,760
they're all peace loving and ce5 contact

938
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:18,799
and

939
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:21,120
that that's not the the agenda but again

940
00:31:23,269 --> 00:31:22,240
that's that's something that's again

941
00:31:25,350 --> 00:31:23,279
very hard to prove

942
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,360
so would you say that's why elizondo was

943
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:26,720
trying to go down this route because

944
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:28,000
that's how you bring

945
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:31,360
the government into this topic

946
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:34,559
in short sure absolutely but to expand

947
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:36,080
on that as well and that's the thing

948
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,320
where i think at times um

949
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,760
i've been able to really get a good

950
00:31:43,029 --> 00:31:41,360
relationship with louisando and

951
00:31:45,190 --> 00:31:43,039
understand him

952
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,200
is though mine was more obviously more

953
00:31:48,470 --> 00:31:46,960
on the domestic side of things and so it

954
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:48,480
was criminal intelligence with drug

955
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,080
networks and cartels

956
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:52,720
and stuff like that but working

957
00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:54,000
intelligence work

958
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:56,960
there's nothing more scary than the

959
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:57,760
unknown

960
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,880
threat

961
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,720
and and i know that you're right it does

962
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:04,880
bother some people and some people

963
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:08,480
who may very well have i don't know um

964
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:11,919
had real true experiences with something

965
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:13,600
and so that's very real to them and they

966
00:32:17,669 --> 00:32:15,360
have a different perspective

967
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,679
but in the world of intelligence and

968
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:18,960
defense world the

969
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,000
unknown is a threat it is

970
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:24,240
until you can understand motivation and

971
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,559
intent and and i think

972
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:29,440
uh if we're talking about this just even

973
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,120
given let's say just

974
00:32:34,549 --> 00:32:33,120
narrow it down to last 70 years

975
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:34,559
motivation and intent is something i

976
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:37,360
think that you have to

977
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,360
question because you have these

978
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:41,279
sightings you have these events

979
00:32:46,870 --> 00:32:44,320
some very credible very interesting

980
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:46,880
things going on for a number of decades

981
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:47,840
but yet

982
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:50,480
clearly and i've said it if it's aliens

983
00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:52,240
they don't give a

984
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:54,399
what people think or have to do because

985
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:55,279
they're not

986
00:33:02,710 --> 00:32:58,960
even do anything

987
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,720
and so if it is that i think

988
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:04,720
there's nothing wrong with questioning

989
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,799
motivation and intent

990
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:09,440
and it's also extremely difficult when

991
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,000
you go down

992
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:12,399
this route i know a lot of people do of

993
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,000
saying well this is what the aliens are

994
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:15,679
doing and our space brothers and all

995
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:16,559
this

996
00:33:20,789 --> 00:33:19,760
if we're talking about something that is

997
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:20,799
truly

998
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:25,840
don't have any frame of reference i mean

999
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,120
we can't

1000
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:29,360
we really truly can't determine what

1001
00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:31,200
motivation intent is because we don't

1002
00:33:33,669 --> 00:33:33,360
understand it we can only assess it

1003
00:33:36,549 --> 00:33:33,679
through

1004
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:36,559
our eyes and and our views we know what

1005
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:37,519
human beings do

1006
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,159
you know once we see some resources we

1007
00:33:43,669 --> 00:33:42,000
need whether it be oil or whatever we're

1008
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:43,679
like let's go to war

1009
00:33:49,430 --> 00:33:47,600
and so um that's kind of how things i

1010
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:49,440
think the lens gets

1011
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:52,240
viewed from and so a i think you're

1012
00:33:54,549 --> 00:33:53,760
right i think if you're going to bring

1013
00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:54,559
it into a more

1014
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:58,080
tangible arena to where people who

1015
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,000
are dismissive of the topic just for

1016
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:02,480
personal reasons or biases

1017
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,360
or it's just not in their purview to

1018
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:07,600
associate and say but hey listen ma'am

1019
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:10,560
you've got this great air defense system

1020
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,520
you've got

1021
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:14,159
one of the biggest and best intelligence

1022
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:15,919
apparatuses in the world

1023
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:18,079
and military but this thing right here

1024
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:20,240
gives you the finger and just zips

1025
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:20,879
around

1026
00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:23,440
and does what it wants that's a threat

1027
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:25,040
it does get their attention

1028
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:28,240
and and i think um so it's wise and

1029
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,720
smart

1030
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:31,919
to do it that way because uh for all we

1031
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,800
know you know

1032
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:34,320
they're playing the long game they're

1033
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:35,919
waiting another 70 years before they're

1034
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,119
like all right let's get them boys

1035
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:41,200
i don't know but but i think it does get

1036
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:42,399
people's attention

1037
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:46,000
and i have seen that um i've interviewed

1038
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:48,320
people one of them the operations

1039
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:49,760
director for the american

1040
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:53,359
mediological society who uh i mentioned

1041
00:34:55,990 --> 00:34:54,399
this where

1042
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:56,000
they told me pointless they're like look

1043
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,680
the chances that there is

1044
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:59,599
an alien presence visiting earth is

1045
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:00,720
exactly zero

1046
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:03,119
that's what they said i don't think when

1047
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:04,160
you're investigating you realize the

1048
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:05,839
chances of something being zero is

1049
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:07,839
that that is zero there's always a

1050
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:08,960
chance for everything

1051
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,839
but that was his opinion however he said

1052
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:13,920
but this stuff with these navy videos

1053
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:14,720
and stuff

1054
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:17,680
that really concerns me because what if

1055
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:18,000
it's

1056
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,920
russian or chinese tech like what if

1057
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:21,520
this stuff's flying off our coast

1058
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,800
and and so he had absolutely

1059
00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:26,640
zero interest in in approaching it like

1060
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:27,839
it could be aliens

1061
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:30,880
but he said it interests him and he

1062
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:33,839
even told me you know by the way our

1063
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:36,480
organization has a program where in

1064
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,520
two years i think we will have cameras

1065
00:35:43,349 --> 00:35:41,359
that will cover the entire skies the

1066
00:35:45,750 --> 00:35:43,359
continental us 24 7.

1067
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:45,760
and and by the way man if you i'm

1068
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:47,520
willing to let you have access to it if

1069
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:48,240
you want to

1070
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:50,000
you know if you have somebody that says

1071
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:51,440
they report a sighting we can go back

1072
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:52,720
and look at the dates and times in our

1073
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,400
camera and see if we captured something

1074
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,960
so right then and there i think if you

1075
00:36:02,069 --> 00:35:58,640
try to push that person

1076
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:02,079
and and debate with them why you can't

1077
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:02,800
rule out

1078
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:05,520
anything but uh you're just gonna lose

1079
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:06,000
them

1080
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:07,359
and they're not everybody well screw you

1081
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:08,640
we're keeping our cameras and looking at

1082
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,720
meteors um

1083
00:36:13,829 --> 00:36:12,640
and so i don't think i think bringing

1084
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:13,839
things into

1085
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,880
where uh people can associate them i

1086
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:18,560
think is that's not a bad thing

1087
00:36:22,390 --> 00:36:20,720
and i know you're right people get mad

1088
00:36:28,150 --> 00:36:22,400
and

1089
00:36:30,069 --> 00:36:28,160
cool i i think if you can really do that

1090
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:30,079
well then um

1091
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:32,079
you probably don't need to sell videos

1092
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:33,440
and everything pray them down

1093
00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:35,599
to let everybody know what their intent

1094
00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:37,680
is and let's have a big introduction and

1095
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:38,240
let's

1096
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:41,440
you know get together and make the

1097
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:42,079
greatest

1098
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:45,839
discovery in human uh civilization so

1099
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:49,839
i i am very cautious at anyone who

1100
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:52,240
who says they absolutely know anything

1101
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,440
and so for me it is

1102
00:36:57,910 --> 00:36:56,640
it's is it's an unknown um

1103
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,920
and i understand it i understand why

1104
00:37:01,829 --> 00:37:00,000
they would say threat but i i

1105
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:01,839
in having conversations with alexander

1106
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,760
or other people i will say that they

1107
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,880
don't use that term and means like

1108
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,400
they're trying to bolster a trillion

1109
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,400
dollar budget for us to build laser

1110
00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:13,119
weapons to shoot anything out of the sky

1111
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,790
and i like what you said that about the

1112
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:21,599
the chance of absolute zero the only

1113
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:23,359
thing that is absolute zero is that you

1114
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:23,680
know

1115
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:26,480
is absolute zero and yeah i always love

1116
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:27,680
the analogy about

1117
00:37:31,270 --> 00:37:29,280
you know fish living down the bottom of

1118
00:37:32,870 --> 00:37:31,280
the sea that spends most of their time

1119
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:32,880
down on the ocean bed

1120
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:34,480
and now and again one of them comes up

1121
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:36,160
and sees a boat and it's

1122
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,599
ah so i bought and they go back to the

1123
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:39,520
other fish and tell the other fish i saw

1124
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,720
a boat and they did oh

1125
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,400
now that those don't exist but i've

1126
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:44,160
never seen one well what did it do i

1127
00:37:48,710 --> 00:37:45,119
just sat there

1128
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,720
then it went away and then someone else

1129
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:50,400
another fish sees a boat but that boat's

1130
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,960
fishing

1131
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:52,400
and tries to catch him or this boat

1132
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:53,839
actually took me on board and i got off

1133
00:37:55,910 --> 00:37:54,480
that boat

1134
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,920
that's just crazy talk that doesn't

1135
00:37:59,910 --> 00:37:57,680
happen because in the expanse of the

1136
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,920
ocean most fish don't see boats

1137
00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:01,200
and that's the way i kind of look at

1138
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:03,520
ufos and ufology that well

1139
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:05,440
why not we are so much better and more

1140
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:07,200
advanced than these fish then what what

1141
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:09,200
if we are just that the fish to those

1142
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,720
that higher consciousness those other

1143
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:12,480
beings whatever these things are that

1144
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,680
are kind of

1145
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,440
toying with the military toying with

1146
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:17,520
people toying with society

1147
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,880
um and you know what maybe they're not

1148
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,160
toying maybe it's just a way of

1149
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,680
communication but not quite worked out

1150
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:22,800
yet but

1151
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,359
yeah um can i just say that's a great

1152
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:27,200
analogy i'm sorry yeah go ahead i'ma

1153
00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,079
steal that man

1154
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,160
that is a great analogy that is that's

1155
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:32,480
that's a really damn good analogy i hope

1156
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,880
you use that every show because that

1157
00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:37,440
you're so right we are limited to our

1158
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:38,560
perception to our

1159
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:41,040
our own experiences and and you're right

1160
00:38:45,430 --> 00:38:42,160
if we're

1161
00:38:47,910 --> 00:38:45,440
deep

1162
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:47,920
we've never seen a boat or you know one

1163
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,720
of our buddies

1164
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:50,640
ventured up and saw one and then we're

1165
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,160
like yeah full of

1166
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:55,200
there's nothing past that sorry go ahead

1167
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:56,480
that's just a great analogy i'm gonna

1168
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:58,240
use that that's great man

1169
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,760
no please steal it i'm just i'm waiting

1170
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:01,200
for someone to pick holes in that one

1171
00:39:04,790 --> 00:39:02,000
day

1172
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:04,800
but that's good cheers man do you have a

1173
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:06,640
favorite of the three videos that were

1174
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:07,119
leaked

1175
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:08,800
and and for any particular reason is

1176
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:10,000
there one that intrigues you more than

1177
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:11,599
any other

1178
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:14,640
oh sure well yeah the the 2004 nimitz

1179
00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:16,400
event but that's solely based on the

1180
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:18,320
fact that that is the only one that i

1181
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:18,800
have

1182
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:21,839
truly truly put any time into

1183
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:23,680
and there's enough data points out there

1184
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:25,599
that i think um

1185
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,720
as an investigator that's what's

1186
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,560
important and i try to express to people

1187
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:30,079
like i'm not a scientist

1188
00:39:33,670 --> 00:39:31,520
and nor am i trying to conclude anything

1189
00:39:35,109 --> 00:39:33,680
is scientific fact um

1190
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:35,119
you know when you're investigating a

1191
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:38,480
homicide you don't try to solve that by

1192
00:39:42,710 --> 00:39:40,720
testing it replicating it killing people

1193
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:42,720
to see if this is how it happened

1194
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:46,480
um and so you make key judgments and and

1195
00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:48,480
what's called peery empirical logic

1196
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:50,560
which is what's observationally

1197
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,359
sound logic and makes sense in in

1198
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:56,079
instances that you can't replicate

1199
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,520
um it's the all of social science does

1200
00:40:03,589 --> 00:40:01,200
that you know psychology

1201
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:03,599
and so that's how i approach it and so

1202
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,640
for me

1203
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:07,119
having enough data points for 2004 with

1204
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,400
all the eyewitnesses

1205
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:10,160
and all these different things that is a

1206
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:11,680
good case for me

1207
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:14,560
um to have been able to examine the 15

1208
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,119
events

1209
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:17,520
in terms of the videos uh and just in

1210
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:18,400
general there's just not

1211
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:21,040
enough data points for me to come out

1212
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:22,640
and say

1213
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,000
anything conclusive about them yet

1214
00:40:29,829 --> 00:40:28,000
uh i think just the recency of it

1215
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:29,839
because a lot of the people who were

1216
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,359
involved in those are probably still in

1217
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:33,599
the military um

1218
00:40:37,109 --> 00:40:36,160
whereas 2004 you have just a really

1219
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:37,119
impressive

1220
00:40:40,309 --> 00:40:39,280
empirical framework to look at with

1221
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:40,319
eyewitnesses

1222
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,319
from from multiple perspectives and so

1223
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:44,000
for that one that video is the most

1224
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:45,359
intriguing

1225
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:48,480
but again i think superficially all

1226
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:49,680
three of them the videos

1227
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:53,040
just themselves that those are not

1228
00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:57,280
evidence of anything and um

1229
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:00,079
i think there's still a lot of uh a lot

1230
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:02,800
of debate to be had with the 2015 videos

1231
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:03,440
as to what

1232
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:07,359
exactly we're seeing um some great

1233
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,920
discussion i had just last night on on

1234
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:11,520
twitter with a good friend of mine tyler

1235
00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:12,160
roadway

1236
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,000
from the war zone who i write for

1237
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:17,520
you know he's more of the mind that

1238
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:20,079
those are foreign drones and that type

1239
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,560
of stuff

1240
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,960
which i'm totally open to but i do have

1241
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:24,480
questions you know there's a lot of

1242
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:25,760
questions there

1243
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:28,960
um including you know how do you have

1244
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,960
an entire failing of the air defense

1245
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:33,119
apparatus to not be able to identify

1246
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:34,960
that and then moreover

1247
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:38,160
if that's the case what the hell

1248
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:39,839
are they and so that's what's

1249
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,560
interesting is they can be man-made

1250
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,920
but there's some answers there's some

1251
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:45,599
questions that we have to answer

1252
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:49,119
like what the hell yeah joe bob's little

1253
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,160
hobby drone

1254
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:53,440
isn't flying 18 000 feet in the air

1255
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:55,440
a hundred miles off the coast they don't

1256
00:41:58,470 --> 00:41:57,280
have the battery or the power to do that

1257
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:58,480
and so

1258
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:01,440
it's intriguing um and that was uh chris

1259
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:03,520
mellon on ttsa talks

1260
00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:04,880
last week on twitter that was really

1261
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,839
good and that's something that's going

1262
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:07,520
to be coming back and i think

1263
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,520
that extra level of transparency with

1264
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,280
that organization particularly that i'm

1265
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:13,200
a big fan of i think will help

1266
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,880
um he had answered one of those

1267
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:16,319
questions regarding the video's

1268
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,760
credibility that

1269
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,440
they don't necessarily show all the

1270
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:21,359
things people are assuming they show

1271
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:22,800
i think like you say you've got to take

1272
00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:24,640
the weight of the pilot's testimony

1273
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:26,800
the eyewitness testimony the radar data

1274
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,560
and a lot of other variables to really

1275
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:30,000
get a full view if you're just taking

1276
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,480
those

1277
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,599
particular clips in isolation um however

1278
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:35,040
that the fact is you say that these

1279
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,960
things are out where they are

1280
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:38,880
performing at speeds and heights that

1281
00:42:43,270 --> 00:42:40,800
they are and again we're taking

1282
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:43,280
pilot testimony but moving at the speeds

1283
00:42:48,550 --> 00:42:45,599
and performing the maneuvers they are

1284
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:48,560
if these are chinese or russian or some

1285
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:49,520
other countries

1286
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:52,160
tech then like has been quoted many

1287
00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,599
times you're talking

1288
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:56,400
multi multi-generational leaps ahead and

1289
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:58,560
that in itself is a fascinating

1290
00:43:02,069 --> 00:43:00,560
topic in conversation regardless of it

1291
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,079
being alien or not

1292
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:04,319
that's that's world-changing physics

1293
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:05,599
that's that's life change that's

1294
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:06,800
life-altering

1295
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:08,960
um but that that's the fascination in

1296
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:10,079
this and i think that's where some

1297
00:43:11,670 --> 00:43:10,480
people

1298
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:11,680
and like you said before you're not a

1299
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:13,680
scientist but that's maybe a good thing

1300
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:15,119
because there's some very respected

1301
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:17,359
scientists like your neil degrasse tyson

1302
00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:19,040
who has given his own opinion when he

1303
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,599
saw the video of ufo doesn't mean alien

1304
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,520
and for someone who's that intelligent

1305
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,640
and that bright

1306
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:26,240
to come out with that comment it's like

1307
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:27,760
well most

1308
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:29,760
most people in the apology aren't saying

1309
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:30,880
that they're alien

1310
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:33,040
a ufo isn't an alien you know they they

1311
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:34,000
go hand in hand

1312
00:43:37,589 --> 00:43:35,839
but that's the conversation that we're

1313
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:37,599
trying to change

1314
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:40,160
well and i all due respect to people

1315
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,520
like neil degrasse tyson

1316
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:43,200
first of all i thought that if anybody

1317
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:45,280
read seth shawstak's recent article

1318
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,920
after the

1319
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,680
april 27th released the videos i thought

1320
00:43:50,790 --> 00:43:49,440
it was great i think people can

1321
00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:50,800
criticize him while they want to and i

1322
00:43:53,510 --> 00:43:52,160
understand why

1323
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,520
but i thought it was great because he

1324
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:55,280
acknowledged hey guys

1325
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:57,040
if you know the collective brain power

1326
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,880
of the dod is saying they can't identify

1327
00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:00,560
them this is probably not got a simple

1328
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,200
answer

1329
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:03,760
but the evidence for me to believe this

1330
00:44:07,510 --> 00:44:05,520
is alien has to be a lot more than that

1331
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,520
i respect that totally in fact i share

1332
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:09,440
that but i thought it was nice but with

1333
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:10,800
neil degrasse tyson people

1334
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,440
that i i'd tell them to their face i'd

1335
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:15,200
love to talk to him and say man i i

1336
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:16,800
understand where you're coming from but

1337
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:17,040
i

1338
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,160
the names that we know uh throughout

1339
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:29,920
history when it comes to science

1340
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:33,040
newton uh pelago theramis uh you know

1341
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,319
einstein these aren't people who

1342
00:44:39,589 --> 00:44:38,800
saw problems or questions and and tried

1343
00:44:41,670 --> 00:44:39,599
to fit them

1344
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:41,680
into the existing framework of what we

1345
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:44,319
knew they realized that the answer for

1346
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:46,480
this probably lies beyond the current

1347
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:48,079
hypothesis we're using

1348
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,079
and so the people who truly make

1349
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:55,359
innovative leaps in human technology and

1350
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:55,920
science

1351
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:58,240
are the ones who are willing to say you

1352
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:59,520
know what

1353
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:01,599
it maybe isn't a distant commercial

1354
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:04,560
plane it may be is it this and this

1355
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,000
um and maybe yeah it is an alien but

1356
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:10,720
we don't have a good what it is yet and

1357
00:45:13,030 --> 00:45:11,280
so they

1358
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:13,040
seek to try to answer that's what i said

1359
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,560
it's um

1360
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,319
if you look at ufos i think one of the

1361
00:45:21,030 --> 00:45:18,480
fundamental problems with it is that

1362
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:21,040
the very title itself i like uap i know

1363
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,319
people got mad about that

1364
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,720
but um it takes the word flying out of

1365
00:45:28,230 --> 00:45:25,920
it and because i've

1366
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,240
said they're not flying you know if if

1367
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:30,240
they're behaving in the characteristics

1368
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:33,359
that uh eyewitnesses or different radar

1369
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:34,880
telemetry and all these things say they

1370
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,440
are

1371
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:37,119
they're not using the principles of

1372
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,119
flight as we know them so lift

1373
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:41,280
uh propulsion you know we know how these

1374
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,319
things work

1375
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,720
they're doing something else and so by

1376
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:46,800
book definition they're not flying

1377
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,880
uh excuse me by our physics actual

1378
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:50,319
definition they're not flying

1379
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:52,079
by dictionary definition they're in the

1380
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:53,760
air moving around they're flying

1381
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:56,720
so if the answer is yes and no it means

1382
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:58,839
that the real answer lies by beyond the

1383
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:00,319
hypothesis

1384
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:03,119
but we can't try to fit and i think this

1385
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,560
goes on the

1386
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:06,640
extreme quote believer side i don't mean

1387
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,000
that derogatorily

1388
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:10,240
um some people maybe are more believers

1389
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:12,000
because of experience

1390
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:15,920
or the extreme skeptic side um

1391
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:18,240
if you just try to jam it into whatever

1392
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:19,760
your yes or no

1393
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:22,960
belief is you may be missing the whole

1394
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:25,520
thing entirely and it's not really

1395
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:28,400
propelling us forward

1396
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:31,760
and that's where oftentimes um

1397
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:32,960
i get more cause i'll get more

1398
00:46:37,270 --> 00:46:35,680
frustrated with quote skeptics sometimes

1399
00:46:39,030 --> 00:46:37,280
although not mick i like mick i know

1400
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:39,040
mick gets a hard time but i think you

1401
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:39,839
know

1402
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,400
he does try to fit things in for him

1403
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:44,160
it's easier to compartmentalize and just

1404
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:45,680
view the videos and not look at

1405
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:46,240
everything

1406
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:48,400
but some skeptics i think are not real

1407
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,280
skeptics

1408
00:46:53,030 --> 00:46:51,920
i mean you know contrarians to be

1409
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:53,040
contrarians

1410
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,720
you know they don't say things like

1411
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:58,960
uh you know has anybody examined this

1412
00:47:02,069 --> 00:46:59,920
it's always

1413
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:02,079
well nobody's talking about this are

1414
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:03,599
they haha

1415
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:06,319
dummies i'm superior to you and it's

1416
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:07,040
like

1417
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,240
you're no you're kind of an um

1418
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,440
yeah and so yeah you know what

1419
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:15,280
i'm pretty new character to myself and i

1420
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,800
think only only really

1421
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:18,560
in the recent weeks with getting a lot

1422
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:19,920
more followers on twitter and more

1423
00:47:23,829 --> 00:47:22,319
involved in the conversation and

1424
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,839
someone that met comes on him at my

1425
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,680
radar as such um

1426
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:27,839
and and watching that video that i saw

1427
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,800
last night

1428
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:30,720
on the interview sorry mix clearly quite

1429
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,079
an eloquent an

1430
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:34,960
eloquent guy he's an intelligent guy

1431
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:35,440
he's

1432
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:41,119
there's a a british aspect of our

1433
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:42,880
characters where whether we're scottish

1434
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,640
english irish or welsh that

1435
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:46,960
we can we can like to annoy people and

1436
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:48,800
it's a british humor that we kind of

1437
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:50,240
like to wind people up

1438
00:47:53,430 --> 00:47:52,079
and i sometimes look at some of his some

1439
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:53,440
of his comments and

1440
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:55,119
i wonder has he can i cast a

1441
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:56,800
metaphorical fishing rod and

1442
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,000
uh do you know what i've got a bit of a

1443
00:48:01,030 --> 00:48:00,240
bite here not that he's not believing

1444
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,040
what he's saying

1445
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:03,119
but maybe he sees he's pushing people's

1446
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:04,400
buttons and he can do it in an

1447
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:05,520
intelligent way that

1448
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:07,359
it knows it's frustrating them and i

1449
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:08,800
think some people jump on that a little

1450
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:10,319
bit too much and if you can

1451
00:48:14,069 --> 00:48:12,000
like yourself you've managed to engage

1452
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:14,079
in a debate with them in a conversation

1453
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:15,760
that you maybe come out the end of it

1454
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:17,520
neither of you agree with the other but

1455
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,040
you do see the others point of view

1456
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,119
that's that that's the avenue to go with

1457
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:23,119
it and maybe online people are getting a

1458
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,680
little bit

1459
00:48:26,790 --> 00:48:25,280
too personal with it and allowing

1460
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:26,800
themselves to get kind of roped in

1461
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:29,119
that's a very early judgment of my own

1462
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:30,559
and taking a scene

1463
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,839
next stance sure and and you're right

1464
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:35,599
and i am as guilty as mick in

1465
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:37,119
in some regard there that i'll

1466
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:38,720
acknowledge i

1467
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,200
enjoy uh you know i was on the debate

1468
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:43,200
team back in school and these things i

1469
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:43,839
enjoyed

1470
00:48:49,990 --> 00:48:47,040
that uh first of all combat

1471
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:50,000
sports and conflict is inherently

1472
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,480
something that human beings love i mean

1473
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:53,920
when you watch soccer when you watch

1474
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:55,680
whatever what it's a competition between

1475
00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:56,240
two people

1476
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,359
it's conflict for a winner and so i what

1477
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:01,040
you just said i think is very accurate i

1478
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:03,280
i enjoy the mental

1479
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,880
combat there's times when i take on

1480
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:06,319
people in twitter where

1481
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,920
i may not even truly you know like

1482
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:11,680
be like my stance is correct but i'm

1483
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:13,520
like screw it i'm going to play mental

1484
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,559
chess because it's fun

1485
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,960
and so i think that mick does that as

1486
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:18,319
well um

1487
00:49:22,390 --> 00:49:20,720
i had a great chat with vic for like an

1488
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:22,400
hour after we were off the air the other

1489
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:22,800
day

1490
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:25,440
and so i think uh one of the things that

1491
00:49:29,030 --> 00:49:27,040
i really respect although you're right

1492
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:29,040
sometimes that in and of itself just

1493
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:30,160
burns people's

1494
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:33,119
ass is when somebody can remain

1495
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:34,400
respectful

1496
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:37,599
the whole time and not lose their stuff

1497
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:40,640
that uh that frustrates people i told

1498
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:41,680
mick from the get-go

1499
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:43,920
right before we started that show

1500
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:45,920
because i forget i had just come from

1501
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:47,440
some meetings so i was wearing a tie and

1502
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:47,839
dress

1503
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:49,520
nice and he was like oh you're i was

1504
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:51,280
going to say you were very very smartly

1505
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:53,760
dressed yeah i did notice that

1506
00:49:58,790 --> 00:49:57,040
well and i um i it was kind of

1507
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:58,800
happenstance but i do try to

1508
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,680
you know that goes back to even back in

1509
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:03,520
policing when i was in charge of

1510
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:05,200
officers there i used to tell people and

1511
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,720
it's true you know if you look like you

1512
00:50:09,270 --> 00:50:08,079
know what the hell you're talking about

1513
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:09,280
or doing that's about

1514
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,559
80 of it and so

1515
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,440
but mick's got the great girl silver

1516
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,599
hair in the english accent i'm like

1517
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:19,680
i'm behind the curve here he's already

1518
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:20,240
sounds

1519
00:50:23,910 --> 00:50:22,079
you already want to accept him as being

1520
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:23,920
a genius and so

1521
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,480
um i do i think but the one thing i

1522
00:50:28,710 --> 00:50:28,319
really appreciate with mick is that he

1523
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:28,720
does

1524
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:32,000
engage and i uh

1525
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:33,520
that's something i think is unfortunate

1526
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:35,599
with a lot of the some of the skeptics

1527
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:37,359
that i've tried to engage with and i

1528
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:38,720
don't like using the term skeptics

1529
00:50:41,430 --> 00:50:39,520
because i don't think they're being

1530
00:50:42,309 --> 00:50:41,440
skeptics you know skeptic is a good

1531
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:42,319
thing

1532
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,599
um but you want to engage it you want to

1533
00:50:49,349 --> 00:50:47,200
try to figure something out you want to

1534
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:49,359
hear you want to hear the opposite

1535
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:51,040
arguments but some people is that

1536
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:53,119
they're just contrarian to be contrarian

1537
00:50:57,349 --> 00:50:54,720
and so when you

1538
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:57,359
bring up an opposite point of that they

1539
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,880
just ignore it and move on to the next

1540
00:51:02,950 --> 00:50:59,839
thing to try to

1541
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:02,960
make somebody look silly or whatever or

1542
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:06,640
they often will not be willing to talk

1543
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,440
to me

1544
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:10,079
and i mean that's one of the things i

1545
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:11,760
constantly say

1546
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:14,480
um man i'll talk to anybody and i'll you

1547
00:51:16,549 --> 00:51:14,800
know

1548
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,559
hey message me we'll chat on the phone

1549
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,160
there's a number of people on twitter

1550
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:19,680
who could attest to that that i've been

1551
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:20,480
like hey

1552
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:22,559
you can't have any real conversation on

1553
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,160
twitter that's silly you know

1554
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,400
you're limited by character limits but

1555
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:27,680
man let's have a chat

1556
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,920
and um it's unfortunate because some of

1557
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,440
the probably the most vehement

1558
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,599
uh people out there that you see saying

1559
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:34,880
nasty things

1560
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:38,800
against ufo community or anybody

1561
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:41,520
like they will not talk to me they're

1562
00:51:44,309 --> 00:51:42,400
like nope

1563
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:44,319
and i'm like well what are you doing

1564
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:45,839
then and so

1565
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,720
um i think healthy skepticism is good

1566
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:50,880
and an english accent helps

1567
00:51:54,230 --> 00:51:52,800
yeah and and being scottish i would i

1568
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:54,240
would disagree with english accent

1569
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:54,800
helping but

1570
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:57,680
all right you're right yeah well you

1571
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:59,280
know what i'm not a good scottish name i

1572
00:52:01,829 --> 00:52:00,079
agree with you

1573
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:01,839
you're right screw me obviously

1574
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:03,440
obviously and you know what i i would

1575
00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:04,400
encourage folk

1576
00:52:07,510 --> 00:52:06,800
and i'll stay off the bat i'll say off

1577
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,520
the bat

1578
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,280
i don't agree with what a lot of next

1579
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,200
coming up but i do get some of his

1580
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:12,720
points and i think it is always healthy

1581
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:14,319
to see the other side of the argument so

1582
00:52:18,309 --> 00:52:15,839
i would encourage people

1583
00:52:20,230 --> 00:52:18,319
to try and engage in a healthy

1584
00:52:21,750 --> 00:52:20,240
conversation a sense of humor always

1585
00:52:23,829 --> 00:52:21,760
helps in 2020

1586
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:23,839
god knows we need humor more than ever

1587
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:25,359
in today's society because it's

1588
00:52:29,109 --> 00:52:28,240
it's a dying art form um but with

1589
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:29,119
someone let me

1590
00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,800
go on watch the chat with tim

1591
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,240
particularly it's really good

1592
00:52:36,309 --> 00:52:34,240
and you know what if nothing else if you

1593
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:36,319
don't pick up any points you agree with

1594
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:37,680
from nick's point of view it might

1595
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:39,359
strengthen your own argument and and

1596
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:40,480
what you believe in

1597
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:42,480
can i just ask they cannot wrap up

1598
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:43,599
slightly on the whole

1599
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:44,960
tic-tac incident because it's something

1600
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:46,720
that's still very much playing out week

1601
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:48,160
after week after week and

1602
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:50,640
it's a developing situation is there any

1603
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:51,599
aspect of it

1604
00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:54,400
tim that you find most intriguing and

1605
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,760
something that you've researched or

1606
00:52:58,829 --> 00:52:57,119
something that you think is still to

1607
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:58,839
come

1608
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:01,920
um hmm i i think

1609
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:04,240
the the some of the i think the most

1610
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:06,079
intriguing aspect of it that

1611
00:53:08,870 --> 00:53:07,440
in just in the witness testament that

1612
00:53:10,150 --> 00:53:08,880
i've talked about and that it hasn't

1613
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:10,160
even really been public

1614
00:53:13,349 --> 00:53:12,240
uh i hate to keep plugging mix show

1615
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:13,359
because i mentioned it for the first

1616
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,880
time on make show but

1617
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:16,800
some of the behavioral characteristics

1618
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:19,359
of what the objects that we're seeing

1619
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:21,440
that's really intriguing to me because

1620
00:53:24,549 --> 00:53:22,559
you had uh

1621
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,559
in this case i've been fortunate to

1622
00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:26,800
interview two three four

1623
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,440
five four or five people who witnessed

1624
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,720
the physical object

1625
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:32,160
so some of them just from the surface

1626
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:34,000
vessel or the princeton

1627
00:53:37,829 --> 00:53:36,800
uh like gary um and others being the

1628
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:37,839
pilots

1629
00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:40,240
and the the most intriguing thing to me

1630
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:42,160
is how they describe the behavior

1631
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,480
of these how how they operate

1632
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,640
that's extreme that's where it goes into

1633
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,000
this realm of well

1634
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:52,319
hell are these alien because these

1635
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:54,079
behavioral characteristics is not just

1636
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:54,720
defying

1637
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:57,599
physics but as we can kind of bring it

1638
00:54:02,230 --> 00:53:58,640
into

1639
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,240
but also nonsense like this erratic

1640
00:54:06,309 --> 00:54:04,880
darting around and i've used the analogy

1641
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:06,319
of bucket of minnows

1642
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:09,119
you know several times where that's what

1643
00:54:13,510 --> 00:54:10,079
they described

1644
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,520
that's weird because even if we're

1645
00:54:17,430 --> 00:54:15,359
talking about a

1646
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,440
a drone system that's been developed by

1647
00:54:20,710 --> 00:54:18,720
somebody whether it's got a human

1648
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,720
operator or it's autonomous

1649
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:22,240
again the person who's developed that is

1650
00:54:25,589 --> 00:54:24,800
human and so it's going to behave in

1651
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,599
manners that

1652
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:27,359
are consistent with what we would want

1653
00:54:32,309 --> 00:54:29,040
for human design

1654
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,319
and so this idea of just darting around

1655
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:34,800
oddly you know hovering above the ocean

1656
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:36,960
and then zipping back and forth not only

1657
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:38,319
does this kind of

1658
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,520
defy how we understand uh lift and

1659
00:54:45,990 --> 00:54:42,559
propulsion

1660
00:54:48,309 --> 00:54:46,000
but also why why the hell do you do that

1661
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:48,319
like what's the purpose and so that

1662
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:49,599
behavior itself

1663
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:51,680
is inherently alien you know we don't

1664
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:53,200
know why you would do that

1665
00:54:59,990 --> 00:54:56,319
so i think in those regards of that

1666
00:55:01,750 --> 00:55:00,000
that the the behaviors of these objects

1667
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,760
uh being described were the most

1668
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:03,680
fascinating for me

1669
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,559
probably the most compelling thing is

1670
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,240
some of the witness testimony from the

1671
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:10,640
pilots themselves who observed them

1672
00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:12,720
maybe more than even what commander

1673
00:55:16,630 --> 00:55:13,680
fravor has said

1674
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:16,640
publicly and everything but for me as a

1675
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:17,760
behavioral analyst

1676
00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:19,359
having opportunity to talk to them

1677
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,040
one-on-one and

1678
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:23,680
hear all the cues that you're looking

1679
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:25,119
for all the emotional

1680
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,359
uh things that you would be looking for

1681
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:28,880
for when you're when you're

1682
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:32,000
investigating somebody's testimony

1683
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:34,240
to hear them align with with what i

1684
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:35,280
mentioned

1685
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,960
way earlier in the show of talking to

1686
00:55:40,390 --> 00:55:38,559
people who had really seen something

1687
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:40,400
that challenged their reality

1688
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:43,359
to hear those cues come out is is really

1689
00:55:45,750 --> 00:55:44,240
compelling

1690
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:45,760
and i mean that's really really

1691
00:55:50,390 --> 00:55:48,079
intriguing to because

1692
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:50,400
it's very consistent with what i said

1693
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,400
people who

1694
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,640
saw or experienced something and

1695
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:55,920
whatever it was

1696
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:59,520
it challenged it it's hard it challenged

1697
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:01,040
their idea of reality

1698
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,559
um that's probably the most intriguing

1699
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:06,160
thing when it comes there

1700
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:09,520
um just in the 2004 events

1701
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:11,920
and i i'll give you an exclusive here i

1702
00:56:14,430 --> 00:56:12,640
haven't mentioned

1703
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:14,440
anywhere else but i'll tell you in the

1704
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:16,160
2015 events

1705
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:19,920
um i i've talked to the people at o and

1706
00:56:25,510 --> 00:56:22,160
i who

1707
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,520
currently are running this program

1708
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:28,079
they say it's not foreign technology

1709
00:56:31,190 --> 00:56:29,440
it's not china or russia

1710
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:31,200
so now you know again it's kind of like

1711
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:32,480
anything else

1712
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:34,720
um you know they hold a lot of

1713
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:35,520
credibility

1714
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:37,119
because i know what positions they're in

1715
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:38,799
i know their careers i know what they're

1716
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,680
doing

1717
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:41,280
where their funding is and so it's like

1718
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:42,880
these are definitely people who should

1719
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:43,680
know

1720
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:46,960
and should be able to determine that

1721
00:56:52,470 --> 00:56:50,000
um but until we fully know

1722
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,480
uh you know i'm very cautious there

1723
00:56:56,549 --> 00:56:53,599
listen

1724
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,559
like you said early on police military

1725
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:58,000
make great witnesses because

1726
00:57:01,430 --> 00:57:00,000
they're we're trained observers we're

1727
00:57:02,150 --> 00:57:01,440
trained to observe the environment we're

1728
00:57:03,430 --> 00:57:02,160
trained to

1729
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:03,440
and we have different tools at our

1730
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,839
disposal to figure out what things are

1731
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,359
but i work with a lot of cops who are

1732
00:57:10,829 --> 00:57:09,359
bad crazy and so

1733
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:10,839
it doesn't mean that people can't be

1734
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:13,839
crazy but it's very compelling there

1735
00:57:19,750 --> 00:57:17,520
and so i think um

1736
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:19,760
it's still unknown they're all unknown

1737
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:22,000
it's an easy logical answer to say

1738
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:24,240
oh it's chinese or it's secret black

1739
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:26,720
tech we'll prove it and until you prove

1740
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:27,040
it

1741
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:36,630
that's all for part one from tim part

1742
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,400
two will be released later on this week

1743
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:39,520
folks i really hope you enjoyed the

1744
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:40,799
interview

1745
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:43,760
just remember to like and subscribe on

1746
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:45,920
whichever podcast platform you choose to

1747
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:47,200
listen to the show

1748
00:57:53,589 --> 00:57:49,839
that's that ufo podcast give us a like

1749
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,599
and say hello on twitter at ufo

1750
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:55,680
and a big shout out as well to craig who

1751
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:58,000
is the first patron of that ufo podcast

1752
00:58:00,630 --> 00:57:58,559
craig

1753
00:58:02,150 --> 00:58:00,640
that show is absolutely dedicated to you

1754
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,160
thank you very much

1755
00:58:06,069 --> 00:58:04,559
again folks stay tuned later on this

1756
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:06,079
week you'll hear more from tim including

1757
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:07,040
the state of play

1758
00:58:10,630 --> 00:58:08,160
uh where are we now with the

1759
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,640
government's role in the uap phenomena

1760
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:12,559
what has been left unanswered in tim's

1761
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:14,480
opinion where do we go next

1762
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:16,079
and a lot more including a lot of

1763
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:17,680
listener questions to which some of the

1764
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:19,680
answers are absolutely fascinating

1765
00:58:23,430 --> 00:58:21,760
that is all for this week's show thank

1766
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,440
you very much for listening

1767
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:25,280
please remember to leave the podcast to

1768
00:58:30,150 --> 00:58:27,440
review on your chosen platform

1769
00:58:32,069 --> 00:58:30,160
you can like retweet and subscribe that

1770
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:32,079
would all be very much appreciated

1771
00:58:35,589 --> 00:58:33,599
the shows are being uploaded onto

1772
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:35,599
youtube as we speak more and more

1773
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:37,599
you can sign up at patreon.com forward

1774
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:39,920
slash that ufo podcast to access

1775
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:42,079
shows ad free as well please get in

1776
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:44,480
touch on twitter facebook instagram that

1777
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:45,920
ufo podcast

1778
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:49,920
of course on twitter it's at ufouapam

1779
00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:51,280
again folks as always

1780
00:59:16,829 --> 00:58:52,880
keep looking up you never know what you

1781
00:59:16,839 --> 00:59:31,030
is

1782
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:32,470
i can't imagine how it could have been

1783
00:59:44,839 --> 00:59:51,750
stairs

1784
00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:53,030
there was something on my head and

1785
01:00:12,549 --> 00:59:56,280
everything was weird and everything was

1786
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,789
if you really want to know who i think

1787
01:00:30,150 --> 01:00:15,839
it's you and me

1788
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:54,829
for being serious

1789
01:00:54,839 --> 01:01:00,549
is

1790
01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:08,829
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

1791
01:01:08,839 --> 01:01:50,829
saucer